Talk:Children

Contrary to the info on this page, ensuring that a 3-7 yo child reach growth tier 8 is actually HARD. I've tried raising several children from 3 to 7 year old in a hand-off way, but all of them only reach tier 5-6 despite all learning means being available: outside, book, comms console, and school. They simply don't start any learning activity while their learning need drop below 80%, or even 70%.

I decided to investigate using devmode. I dropped my child's learning need to 0 while filling their food and sleep needs. Then I gave them a specific desire using "Add learning desire", and find out what are the requirements for each learning activity to start. Here is what I found:

• Lesson taking requires an awake adult that is capable of teaching. If no adult can do childcare, or the capable ones are sleeping, the child will never go to the desk.
• Work watching requires an adult currently using a skill the child is capable of. For children age 3-7, I found only recruiting and enslaving prisoners allow for them to work-watch. They will not watch adults hunting, feeding prisoners, or doing any skilled labor.
• Skydreaming has a rather mysterious requirement to activate, but children seem to start this activity when they are near the outside of any room or animal pens (but deconstructing a few wall or fence block to break the enclosure doesn't make the children start skydreaming). Children can do skydreaming when it's raining.
• Nature running: I have no idea how to ensure that children start this activity when their need is below 90%.

When you must ensure an average learning satisfaction of 90%, there is very little room for error, that means waking the child up when they're sleeping and their learning drop below 90%, waking an adult up whenever the child need to take lessons, and drafting and moving the child outside when they need to sky dream.

Wasn't able to identify who added the suggested move tags into the article, but I think I'm overall opposed to splitting it into 2 or 3 pages: 1: Children, Reproduction, and their development/learning are a keystone feature of the new DLC and are purely parts of the same system 2: It's entirely possible to accurately discuss all three in detail in the same article 3: Wiki page load times are already atrocious, are we going to force people to load multiple pages for information that could exist within a single article?

As of now it's hard to say, since it may expand exponentially once we get into the nitty-gritty of growth vats, natural pregnancy, kidnapping and slave trading and comparing all of them to each other.

I'm okay with keeping the page as-is until the time comes though.

Wiki load times/failure rate are a result of drastically increased traffic to us and Ludeon's site. They should decrease over time as Biotech hype does hopefully. Same page links are always easier for everyone though esp mobile users and those with poor internet speeds.

That's said, I'm also against splitting the page. I don't see what will be better served by splitting it across multiple pages. At most having growth vat centric analysis on growth vat might be advisable but that's not a division on this page.

If and when massive expansion does happen, then maybe we split it, but only if and when.

Obligatory this is my opinion as an editor only not an order from a moderator. Disagreement and discourse welcome

Given User:Jackeloko was the one that suggested the moves, they should be allowed to argue their side too.

Mentioned earlier in the Family Planning talk page - https://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Topic:X5pkkskt68y1yn4d

I'll "briefly" sum my arguments for seperating children & reproduction:

• Babies and children are dramatically different. Babies have no learning, they can't move, they have baby-exclusive food, items, and moodlets. They are explicitly seperate in the pawn generation screen. Babies are a better fit to pair with reproduction than children are, because they are what you directly get from reproduction.
• Children can be obtained outside of pregnancy / reproduction. Quests can spawn with child pawns recruitable. As far as I can tell, this is not true for babies.
• Massive pages are clunky to read. For example, if I wanted to know about psyfocus, I would have to load the entire psycast page, and can't really scroll or skim through it - lest i miss the section. If I would to search "Children", I would start at the beginning of this page, and have to scroll through the entirety of Reproduction. While the TOC exists, it is easier to use if the page is shorter.
• There is a substantial amount of information and analysis for pregnancy / baby growing and preventing pregnancy. There is a substantial amount of info and analysis for children raising. Both analysis sections are totally unrelated to each other.

Basically, children and babies act and feel like 2 entirely seperate systems, so deserve their seperate pages. "Children and reproduction" makes no sense when you can get children 100% outside of reproduction.

See User:Hordes/Reproduction for work/demonstration on a page split. (Babies / Children pages will be edited in as they are done)

This page is quite large already, taking up multiple screens' worth of space. This does not include: the actual status conditions of pregnancy, much information about growth vats, numbers relating to birth itself, or analysis (which may not actually need to exist).

This entire section and everything after has nothing to do with babies themselves, and absolutely nothing to do with children. If this doesn't convince you to split the page, idk what will.

Hello! Yes, I did make the initial suggestion of moving the page, preferrably into at least two pages. One for the process of reproduction itself and another one for children. Whether babies (and teenagers?) should have separate pages too is one I'm indifferent to.

In any case, both features contain enough info individually to justify separate pages, and User:Hordes has already put the reasons as to why more eloquently than I ever would. I see the counter-arguments, but then I would direct your attention to the fact that Mechanitors and Mechanoid creation are each their own page already.

I wasn't aware of the load time issue though, as it hasn't affected me. If it's a major issue then perhaps moving the page can wait. I just fear that the page will get tangled and messy if not moved sooner than later. But I'm no veteran editor, so a grain of salt is to be taken.

After reading through your responses I've been convinced that there's good reason to divide the topic into one for pregnancy/infants, and one for child pawns ages 3-13 and the growth system.

Alright. Candidate for a final decision because this is dragging on.

Step 1) Pregnancy and baby content shifted and merged with Family planning alongside User:Hordes reproduction. Page renamed to Reproduction or Babies or whatever as appropriate.

Step 2) This page dedicated to children mechanics only and renamed as such.

Three pages is excessive, let alone four. The pages also need to have names that users would think to search for and that editors will link to. This is a good middle ground to prevent page bloat and page number bloat, especially with liberal use of interlinking.

Alright, then it seems clear

Family planning + + Babies moved to the stuff on User:Hordes/Reproduction. Probably named Reproduction (redirects: Human reproduction, Pregnancy*, Pregnancy (human), Baby/Babies, Surrogacy, all the surgery names)

• Animals can get pregnant in Core, so should probably redirect to the animal version(?)

Children also has a mostly completed page at User:Hordes/Children. (redirects: Child, Kid)

If you can do the move and all the stuff after, then that would be great. (Also there's no wiki page or section on babies)