Talk:Genes

Any smokeleaf/alcohol/psychite impervious genes all provide blanket immunity from any drug tolerance gain. Any psychite/wakeup/go-juice impervious genes provide blanket immunity from any drug OD gain via normal means. Or at least force a pawn with psychite impervious to take 2000 wakeup and 500 go-juice wasn't enough to trigger even a minor OD. Average ODs for the amount of drugs they took should have been ~12. Impervious genes addiction immunity is the only part that isn't global it seems (addictions to go-juice and wakeup occurred quite quickly in the test)

Repeating the test with go-juice immune for 1000 wakeup also resulted in no ODs.

I'm new here so I don't want to make the edits unless others agree?

Note - this is no longer true. The genes now work as advertised.

Damn, looks like you're right, and seems the page was edited to include this. Gotta say, this seems like a bug - having *any* drug impervious gene preventing both (cumulative and random) overdose *and* tolerance to *any* drug? Surprised this isn't talked about more, really.

I've noticed my pawns with the scarless gene, on top of gradually healing scars acquired prior to gene implantation, simply never sustaining new scars at all - even brain damage, which should permanently scar every time, heals up like any other normal injury if the scarless gene is in play first. As the description and this page seem to only depict the former behaviour, I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this, or if my game is merely too heavily modded for its own good.

Such as Genes (cosmetic) or Genes/Cosmetic, with a link in Genes. Any objections?

If they stay on this page, I think they should be collapsed by default. There are already a lot and it's incomplete.

Some more info on cosmetic genes:

• In the xenotype editor, the genes are split into these categories: Cosmetic, Cosmetic - body type, Cosmetic - hair, Cosmetic - skin. Natural skin colors do not appear in the editor. The reason hair and natural skin are currently missing from Genes is probably because they are defined in Core, not Biotech. I assume they are used for the skin and hair color of all characters even without the expansion.
• None of them have any effect on complexity or metabolic efficiency (or any other non-cosmetic effects?). Saying "0, 0" on each one is probably unnecessary.
• Furskin is a Miscellaneous gene that has both actual effects and cosmetic effects.

I don't really see a need to split the page. It makes it less intuitive for readers and editors. Its not like the page won't still be huge without them.

If content is missing though, then it should be added. The page is still somewhat under construction. There's basics for most genes but a lot isn't to standard.

It lists the raw foods that don't count as well as one of the tasty raw foods that do. Berries also apply. Should berries be added or should milk be removed as it's not an exception, thus leaving it as just a list of exceptions and not a mix of inclusions and exclusions? I'm inclined to remove milk, but if someone questions if tasty raw foods count for this they might want it clearly stated and not just implied.

Looks like User:Hordes implemented your proposed suggestion and removed milk.

Personally I'm fine with that - tasty raw food is still raw food, and by removing milk it doesn't imply its in a special class anymore. I don't think its confusing now. The eggs distinction I think is necessary to keep though.

If you're happy with this, you can close the topic by marking it as resolved with the ... at the top right corner of the topic.

"Harmful genes will increase their metabolic efficiency, getting hungry slower, and thus consuming less food overall. Meanwhile helpful genes reduce metabolic efficiency, getting hungry faster, and thus consuming more food." how is consuming more food helpful

Metabolic efficiency is the price you pay for genes that are helpful in other ways - so if you get an advantage (say you move faster) you pay for that by having lower metabolic efficiency and having to eat more food. But if you take on a detriment (e.g. you are a ugly) you get paid for that by having higher metabolic efficiency and eating less food.

If this was confusing, it might be worth looking into rewriting that line.

Standard is set

Genes#Ability is my rough proposal for the table format. Description, complexity and metabolism are clearly a good basis, but the descriptive language only isn't the best for explaining how everything actually works.

Hence the three new columns:

1. Mechanical detail of the effects with hard numbers.
2. Prereqs - Some genes also require others (e.g. Longjump requires Hemogenic)
3. Some genes are mutually exclusive (e.g. all the skin colors) - this is done via exclusion tags (e.g. every skin color has a SkinColorOverride tag that prevents there being duplicates)

Anyway, filling out the tables is going to be a monumental task so I wanted to get other peoples opinions/improvements/etc before implementation. I really want to avoid having to go back and change everything once its already done so nows the time to tear the idea to pieces and find any issues.

Especially interested in your opinion User:Theothersteve7 given all the effort you put in getting every gene on the page.

The description and categorization is all ripped directly from the game's data files, so as long as that's still included I don't have a strong opinion. Might adjust the column widths; it's kind of a mess at the moment. I agree that some hard numbers would be appreciated. I like your proposal - go for it!

My work was deliberately minimalist and I only included stuff that I figured everyone would agree on. It definitely needs more.

Will every gene have an image file attached to it? If so, I could upload and implement those if it would help.

WanderingStar - Yeah eventually they will all have the image similar to psycasts, if you'd like to upload them, that'd be amazingly helpful, but hold off on implementation until we get the format decided. I don't want you to put in all that work and have the chance to waste it!

Speaking of, if no other issues are raised (and I really do mean that I want con-crit, so if anyone reading this has an opinion, please post it) we'll go forward with it in a day or so? Maybe sooner.

with the amount of tables would it be possible to make the tables collapsible, so that it would be easier to navigate by collapsing the tables you don't need?

Yes that is absolutely possible and a great idea. Gimme a minute to implement it on the example one.

Done. I've put it to be expanded by default to allow for easy ctrl-F searching but you'll also be able to collapse them

EDIT: I've also swap "metabolism" and "complexity" with their icons to shrink down the width of those columns per Theothersteve7's suggestion

I think that there should be an explanation on how Metabalisim and Complexity work, as well as which genes are mutually exclusive

also, more information. The acid, do they do it automaticly? will slaves use it during a revolt?

next off, there should be a section for inheritable. will it go to offspring?

Explained how Metabolism and Complexity work.

Not bought the DLC yet so my perspective will be a little different.

1) I get the reasoning about horizontal space, but think it would be beneficial to have the names spelled out for "complexity" and such. On PC you can hover over the icon and get the meaning, but that won't work on mobiles for example. And unlike some other icons in the game that are pretty much self-explanatory, these are not. Can force a linebreak in the headers for example, so there is both text+icon.

2) Looks like the individual pages haven't been created yet (kinda what this discussion is about I guess), so this can't be done yet, but I strongly suggest to make the tables based on a template instead of hardcoding it. Even with SMW, tables like that can be made based on infobox data. That way it will be easier to update when Ludeon changes things around, which I'm sure they will do at some point as lots of balancing will be going on now. And writing a wikitext table with 10 columsn and 200 rows or something is... a LOT OF WORK. Would suck to have that wasted if Ludeon change half the values for something in two weeks. With a template, it's also much easier to add or remove a column further down the line. Something similar to material and such I suppose, which from what I recall is based on templates now.

Hello there, I also haven't bought the DLC but when watching runs on Youtube I noticed that Complexity comes before Metabolism. But on the current tables, Metabolism comes before Complexity.

Also I understand that the Effects column is meant to include the mechanical details of how each gene plays out, but it would also take up much of the space in the table. Would it also be possible to make that column collapsible, especially as it is not explicitly shown in-game?

I would put the description and effects on the same column. Put the description on top, and then exact mechanical effects on the bottom. Truncate things as needed. Saves having to repeat things twice (Able to spew fire / "Adds ability: fire spew")

I agree it adds a lot of white space and width, but the descriptions aren't always the most useful so having a format that splits the official description and the actual mechanics is useful.

Thoughts on this as a compromise?

Name	Effects			Prereq.	Exclude
Fire spew	Carriers are able to spew flammable bile generated by a special organ in their neck. The bile sticks to anything in a small area and can ignite people, objects, and the ground. - Description Adds ability: Fire spew Spit a stream of sticky, flammable bile from the mouth. The bile can ignite anything or anyone it hits, and also form flaming pools on the ground. The bile is generated and stored by an organ in the neck, along with a separate pouch of hypergolic reactant for ignition.' Spits flammable liquid in a 7.9 tile triangle with a 3 tile wide end.[Detail Needed] Target: Pawn or Location Warmup Time: 60 ticks (1 sec) Cooldown: 300,000 ticks (83.33 mins) AI Can Use: True. Note: AI will still target fire-immune targets. Market Value Factor: 1.5	−2	0	-

I would: "Carriers are able to spew flammable bile generated y a special organ in their neck."

---

• Adds Fire spew ability: Spits flammable liquid in a 7.9 tile triangle with a 3 tile wide end.

-(no picture or description of the actual ability)

• Target: Pawn or Location
• Warmup Time: 60 ticks (1 sec)
• Cooldown: 300,000 ticks (83.33 mins)
• AI Can Use: True. Note: AI will still target fire-immune targets.

we wouldn't need description of the ability if we 1. had the gene dsecirption above and 2. show the exact details below

I have a few thoughts -If individual genes receive their own pages, the icon to the far left of the table should link to the wiki article for that gene, not to the image used for the icon. -I personally think traits with the same effect just different magnitudes should be grouped together into a single article (Such as Poor Skill and Awful Skill), but that we should not intermix positives and negative into a single article (Beautiful and Ugly together, for example). This way we can create categories for genes that are purely going to add or subtract metabolic rate. Of course within those articles we should link to the corresponding opposite gene articles.

I noticed that some of the columns do not match the ones ingame. For example, pig nose or grayless hair are not part of cosmetic, but are part of miscellaneous in Rimworld. Has this been a conscious decision?

Besides this I also noticed that the order of the items are is different. Do we want to change this so it matches the order in the game?

Rule of thumb is: if there's categorisation in-game, it should be reflected on the wiki, and if there isn't then you add additional structure as need/makes it easier. This keeps it relatable to the game and makes it easier for readers.

Tl;Dr if things aren't in the ingame categories, they should be changed so that they are unless there's some compelling to do otherwise.

Lots of the genes incorrectly have 0 as the complexity value, when it should be 1. I fixed a few sections manually, but am not sure if I'd do the rest of the article. My guess is that someone ran a script over the game data files, which have a biostatCpx field on some genes (usually those where the complexity is something other than 1), and that the script assumed that if the field is missing then the complexity defaults to 0, whereas the true default value appears to be 1. (Generally speaking, complexity is at least 1 on all genes except the purely cosmetic ones.)

While this remains true, perhaps the page should have a cleanup notice? Not sure how these things are done.

Is it only the ones with 0 complexity or are there other mistakes as well?

Among the numbers that I saw, only the ones that said "0 complexity" seemed to be wrong.

I am new to editing the wiki and trying to learn formatting with this post, sorry if things are wonky.

Mechanics

Additive Value

Some genes have an additive modifier to market value

• Very Attractive: Market Value +700
• Attractive: +350
• Unattractive: −350
• Very Unattractive: −700

Skill Genes

Skill genes modify value through the provided skill offset. A pawn with shooting skill 10 would gain the same value by implanting the great shooting gene as would be gained by training shooting skill from 10 to 18.

Positive Value Genes

• Tested every gene for effect on market value in dev mode.
• Used baseliner pawn with 5 in all skills, no health issues, and no traits.

Gene	Value
None	1625
very attractive	2325
attractive	1975
great skill	1790
strong skill	1710

Negative Value Genes

Gene	Value
None	1625
poor skill	1540
awful skill	1515
trotter hands	1500
violence disabled	1410
extra pain	1360
unattractive	1275
very unattractive	925

Notes

• While extra pain reduces market value, reduced pain has no effect.

• Fire breath, acid spew, speed genes, immunity genes, and some other genes not listed above currently have market value modifiers in the wiki. I did not find any change when testing.

Crabpeople (talk)

You're talking about changes to the market value of characters with the genes, by directly or indirectly changing the character quality. I think the ones you removed are changes to the market value of genepacks containing the genes.

Both should be documented on the wiki somewhere. They could be here and/or on the Character Quality and Genepack pages, if there were a character quality page. Which there should be, but the game doesn't tell you the factors and I can barely find any information about them, on the wiki or elsewhere.

Since longjump (which is rediculously op) depends on hemogen doesnt that make it belong in the hemogen category?

They should be based on the display category in game, whichever that is. I think that it might actually be Hemogen now though. Not in a position to check but will do so later.

Good to see you back on the wiki btw, Jiquera, been a while.

thx :) well it's been a while since I posted... but I've never stopped lurking around ;-)

I just double-checked ingame, it is indeed a hemogen ability. Moved.