User talk:Ickputzdirwech

Adding a topic so I can drop short message here rather than keep spamming your talk page.

Template:Floor Table Row has been updated to add cleaning time factor - its intentionally not handling missing CTFs because they should be on every page.

Also your edits to Hex carpet, Mindbend carpet and Morbid carpet contradict the body. Body says "Unlike regular carpet, <NAME> carpet has a cleaning time of only 100%. " Quick look at the .xmls implies you're right and they were updated to 200% at some point, but the body should be fixed (and the change added to history) but I don't want to step on your toes while you're editing.

Also Reported totemic board's lack of burned version.

Actually it looks like they might have missed all the ideo floors and then updated them later - the plates also have a similar disparity.

I wondered if I should add them to all pages or just to those that have something else then 1. Will do that next.

I figured I'll do the infoboxes first. Rewriting the Summary and Analysis sections always quite some time and it might be quicker doing them all at once and copy/pasting a lot.

Thanks for reporting it!

You mean the Animalist slab etc.? I tested them and since they are placed on top of floors, they should be replaced by burned floors.

No I was talking about how the spikecore plates say 100% in the body and 60% in the infobox, hex tile has the same. Iirc all the ideology floors just had 100% at first, I vaguely remember reporting it or talking about it. It looks like all the ideo floors were later fixed

Ah, ok, sorry. I‘ll go over the pages again and update the summaries. There is also a property in the xmls (I mostly work with them) that defines wether a floor can be colored. Should that also be added to the infobox?

I think the Template:Weapon Quality Table/Melee is now full featured for replacing the other two templates and its now all reliant on the row template as opposed to the mess it was previously. Thank you for doing so much of the work. Would you mind going through and check things and make sure I didn't break some edge case?

I did find a calculation issue regarding the cooldown but I think I created it myself when I edited Template:True Melee DPS Calculator. It's a bit funky because Template:Weapon Quality Table/Melee/Row actually just reuses the variable from Template:True Melee DPS Calculator (simplifies a lot!).

I also took you by example and created Template:Weapon Quality Table/Ranged/Row in order to simplify that one as well. Added a hard coded list of ranged weapons without quality while I was doing it. So every case should now be accounted for.

I also finally figured out how to make individual toggles. The issue where the spaces in the names.

What do you think about moving the template? The name doesn't really fit the bill any more.

Yeah I'm on board with moving it, and was planning on it when I could think of a good name.

• Weapon attack table - odd for ranged weapons portion as its not really displaying attacks
• Weapon variant(s) table - Mostly correct except for things like thrumbo horns
• Weapon display table - generic and not really descriptive
• Weapon summary table - slightly less generic but pretty accurate?
• Weapon stats table - bit generic but most accurate?

You're ofc welcome to pick one and move as you wish. Ideally we could have the heading be the same as the template name to minimize confusion, but I also think your idea for optionally changing or suppressing headings is a good one too. I think it is implemented on one of the table templates, but icr which.

Edit: Re the recode tag for headers - do you want to be able to suppress each of the 3 separately or is all 3 at once ok? Same for optional renaming - rename just the Top one or the subheadings as well?

Edit2: I forgot to say, excellent work with the individual toggles and the rest of the changes. The template is so much better than it was, thanks to you.

Two more things:

1) Should we make the melee template work for pawns as well? After all they have attacks like melee weapons.

2) In Template:Weapon Quality Table/Melee there is some commented out code in the control panel section. Did you want to add toggles for individual materials?

EXAMPLE IMAGE Thoughts on dropping the DPS and AP down to the "second row" to avoid all that extra white space and to match the melee table?

The ones that don't have rows would stay the exact same.

fine by me. Just wasn't sure if it makes sense content wise. But I guess it really doesn't matter.

Yeah idk that it makes sense, but the extra white space on the table looks bad and the skinnier the table the better for smaller screens. Also means that most tables will be the same width, and that means that you copy and paste screenshots or swap back and forth between them with less difficulty, but that might only be relevant to me because I do send them to newbies on the discord lmao

Wouldn't it just be the dps x melee hit chance? Might be easier to just do that outside the template.

Yeah, I was just thinking that ideally things like manipulation could be calculated automatically. On the other hand the template is already very complicated as it is.

Are the other images for the sarcophagus gallery old? The proportions seem to be off

Yea, I noticed the difference as well, that‘s why I didn’t replace the image in the infobox for now. I will check the game files as soon as possible.

I just checked the files and ingame and the shorter images are the current ones. Which raises the question: were did you get the longer version from? :-D

We might need to do some work on Template:Melee Weapons Table/Template:Melee Weapons Table Row - I can't even get them to load, they just time out. This happens when there are too many template calls or expensive calculations. Optimizing them or the DPS calculator they rely on might be necessary.

Thanks for letting me know! I noticed to the long loading times as well but since I could get the preview to load I assumed it would fix itself after a while. I suspect I need to reduce the number of #ask calls, since the template include size is fine. I will try to fix it later this morning.

As far as I can tell the issue is the "Preprocessor visited node count" of Template:True Melee DPS Calculator. I tried to reduce it but I managed only a minor reduction (about 5%), not nearly the -50% that is probably needed (wasn't all for nothing though, since I found two calculation errors while editing). I therefore scrapped the material toggle for the Template:Melee Weapons Table. I kept it on Blunt weapons since that table is significantly smaller.

I think I managed to cull another ~20%, care to take a look and make sure I didn't break anything?

Template:Q can add a lot (each one is a var def and an #if by default - its neat and easy to use, but it is more to process) so i pulled out all of them except those that used a default value and replaced them with #show and there were a couple of minor things. We could potentially cull the remaining Q's as well but I'm not sure if we'd actually save anything given they'd have to have a very similar logic to for the default anyway.

I figured out a way to simplify Q that probably made that a little redundant, but it also worked on the existing ones so all up, including your work we dropped it by about 27%.

EDIT: Swapped the last of the Q's and it did actually cut it down a bit further, despite the changes made to the Q template. Calling or processing the variables must be a significant factor. Final measurement is a 31% reduction.

Great work! I can't see anything broken by the changes and especially the improvements to the Q-Template will speed up the whole wiki. I don't want to know how often that template is called.

Regarding the changes to Template:True Melee DPS Calculator: do the combined bluntAndQualityFactor and sharpAndQualityFactor really make a difference? I don't understand why that would be the case.

I think the templates could be optimised enough to activate the material toggle in the preview I get a Preprocessor visited node count of 569,262/1,000,000.

> I don't want to know how often that template is called.

Its on something like 1300 pages... yeah its a lot. Glad to know that nothings broken - I've been looking and haven't found anything either. It'd have to be a weird edge case that relied on the variable somehow I think, but I've never seen anything like that.

> do the combined bluntAndQualityFactor and sharpAndQualityFactor really make a difference?

It was most a test to see how much of a difference a small difference would make - that same extra var call and multiplication was done what, like 20 times if every one fired? Iirc it was a couple of percent different. Not huge, but not nothing. Nothing I could see was pulling those values out to use, and I didn't really see a use for doing so either, but if you disagree you're welcome to revert that bit. Whatever you need. The vast majority is from changing it to #show/fixing the defaults.

> I think the templates could be optimised enough to activate the material toggle in the preview

Fantastic! Its 100% something that'd be great to have. We just gotta make it work first.

I did some further improvements to Template:True Melee DPS Calculator (among other things I realised we only needed four attacks for weapons). And compared to pre 13. Nov. 23 it runs about 40% faster Test case: {{True Melee DPS Calculator|Longsword|Gold|Good|Human}}.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be enough. Strangely enough, the preview of Template:Melee Weapons Table loads if I activate the material toggle - but after I save I can't load the page.

> do the combined bluntAndQualityFactor and sharpAndQualityFactor really make a difference?

>>It was most a test to see how much of a difference a small difference would make - that same extra var call and multiplication was done what, like 20 times if every one fired? Iirc it was a couple of percent different. Not huge, but not nothing. Nothing I could see was pulling those values out to use, and I didn't really see a use for doing so either, but if you disagree you're welcome to revert that bit. Whatever you need. The vast majority is from changing it to #show/fixing the defaults.

I looked at it again and I think I understand now, why it makes a difference: the number of variables gets reduced by one and more importantly the multiplication of these to values is done only once. Thanks for the explanation!

So if I had to guess, "Hunger Rate Multiplier" was renamed into "Bed Hunger Rate Multiplier" (annoyingly defNamed "BedHungerRateFactor" because what is consistency) given the similarities in the name and the fact that its in the same .xml.

The pawn stat list was made by copy over all the labels, so its either that or a since-removed stat.

On that topic though, the Sleep accelerator offsets Bed Hunger Rate Multiplier, rather than Hunger Rate Factor. I'd assume its Hunger Rate * (1 + ∑(Hunger Rate Factor Offsets)) * ∏(Hunger Rate Factors) * Bed Hunger Rate Multiplier but I don't know for sure.

Yeah I noticed that it's a different stat for the sleep accelerator, but figured as long as I don't know where in the formula it's applied, I'll just assume it's at the same point as all other factors (and then it really doesn't matter if it's internally called different).

There are also Hunger Rate Factors for baby and juvenile animals and for humans of different ages which I haven't added yet.

Just dropping by to say thank you yet again for everything you do in maintaining the wiki. Edits, templates, linkfixes, categorizations all the other stuff needed to keep the wiki going for both readers and other editors. This'd all be a hell of a lot harder without your help.

Thanks for your kind words! It’s a pleasure :)

I really like how you utilised the DLC Icons template btw. I would have never thought of that.

Hahaha I feel like such an idiot - I would have sworn up and down that I tried that and it didn't work. I spent so long trying to find a different way to fix it. I guess I must have misspelled it or something and written it off without double checking it. Thank you for fixing it

Change reverted. All good

Re This edit which inverts the behaviour of #. Did you check the other templates and calls besides market value to see if any were broken by the change? Losing the formatting when used in-line is not ideal but not a big issue, its mostly where it already had a # that I'm concerned about.

I thought about this again and I'll just revert the edit you mentioned. I didn't know that quite so many pages used display formats. It was meant to be an easy solution for issues following the data type change of Property:Work To Build Offset. It is probably best if the display format is set on a case by case basis.

Sorry for the trouble!

Each pawn uses a body of a set type that defines all their body parts and the parts' base health. Some animals share body types - for example a Cat and a Cougar both use QuadrupedAnimalWithPawsAndTail, but obviously it doesn't make sense for the cat to be just as durable as the cougar. Health Scale acts as a multiplier for the HP of every body part.

So a Cat has a health scale of 0.42 and a cougar has a health scale of 1.3, so the tail of a cat will have 32% the hit points of a cougar tail.

Thanks for the explanation!

The various meals have recreation offsets defined in their infoboxes. Just wondering if you know anything about them, because I can't see any effect in game nor can I find any evidence for them in the .xmls. Looks like they were there back before you did your legendary slog converting all the defines to infoboxes so its probably just a left over from an old version?

I'm going to take them out, but please let me know if theres something I'm missing and they're still valid.

I'm pretty sure you are right. I can't find them anywhere either. Is it possible that these values got replaced by the thoughts "ate lavish meal" etc.?

Obsoleted rather than deleted

Hi. Do you know if the templates you tagged for deletion (Template:Plant (old), Template:Plant Info, Template:PlantBase) were used previously? Considering keep the templates functional and just tag them as Obsolete if it'll help keep the page version histories legible.

If you don't know, no worries.

Short answer: I don't know if they were ever in use.

No worries, I'll look into it myself before deletion

defName should be used consistently.

Why is defName now defined in two different ways in the infobox template?

There is no good reason for it, other than that I didn’t change the parameter on a lot of pages when I switched from define and I thought instead of changing all pages individually I could fix it via the template. Apart from being a dumb idea it also doesn’t work as it’s supposed to. Forgot to clean it up again.

There are ways to implement that (e.g. checking for one and only if it doesn't exist, looking for the other, and having both assign to the same property) but its not best practice and can still cause issues down the line. Glad you fixed it.

If the issue identifying the pages to be fixed though, you can make a temporary edit to the template looking for the wrong one, and assign pages with it to a category or set some test property, and then use that to find them. Then just revert the edit to the template once you're done. Should make it pretty easy to fix it in bulk.

But I;m sure you'd have worked that out yourself, if you hadn't already - lemme know if you have any issues and feel free to close this topic if you don't have anything else to add.

Fixed the pages I remember making the changeover from define to infobox main recently. I will check again when the changeover is finished.

Added a third parameter "delta" on Template:Temperature and checked all recent revisions.

Be careful using the Temperature template. The template convert it assuming that it is the actual temperature of a thing but some of the places you've used are actually the relative difference in temperature.

So for example, if the temperature of something IS 30C then it is also 86F (i.e. {{Temperature|30}} = 30 °C (86 °F)), but if something is 30C HOTTER than another thing, then it is 54F hotter than the other thing not 86F hotter than that thing (e.g. 30 °C (86 °F) vs 0 °C (32 °F))

I am very tired so that might not make sense. Let me know if I'm was unclear.

My god there was like 10 different spelling and grammar mistakes in that alone. I think I'll leave you to fix it rather than try it myself in this state. If I'm reading it correctly, Apparel, Insect Jelly, Mood and maybe the infobox template have this issue. Might be an idea to check them all though JIC.

Facepalm :( Thanks for the message! I‘ll fix it asap

Maybe a Template: Delta Temperature or something is needed.

Thanks for being so good about constructive criticism btw.

First, I am so impressed with all of your work to convert the define templates to infoboxes. Its a huge process and its been needed for so long, so it is massively appreciated.

Second, with Property:Product Amount have you thought about how to handle kibble which apparently produces different amounts from the same recipe depending on where it is made? (I haven't actually checked that that it is still true, so it may be a non-issue)

Third, so you've added Cooking as the skill for Wort, but without a level because anyone can do it. Previously its only been set on things with a requirement. I'm not saying its wrong or anything but I would be interested in your input on how best to display stuff as you're probably the only current user besides me with experience with the infobox template. To me there seems to be several pieces of relevant info:

• Skill requirement
• Skill that gets XP from performing the task
• Skill that controls quality
• Stat that controls crafting speed
• Work type that allows the bill to be processed/will be banned by traits and backstories

Not everything has a skill requirement (e.g. wort), not everything gives XP (stone blocks), not everything has quality (e.g. clubs which are otherwise a normal crafting), theres a bunch of different crafting speed stats and some items have skills control their production speed, others don't (e.g. Construction vs Tailoring) others conflict with the other categories (e.g. smokeleaf uses the cooking stat for its speed, but is done with often done with the intellectual work type).

There is some overlap with these, and some might be completely redundant with another. I haven't gone looking for all the edge cases yet. But overall its a convoluted mess to display. I think I want to have at least Skill Required and Crafting Speed Stat, but not 100%. I'd appreciate your input on it

1. Thanks!

2. I just had a quick look at the game files and the product amount of the kibble recipe is 50. The butcher spot however has the property "WorkTableEfficiencyFactor" of 0.7. So I think on the kibble page Product Amount should just be 50.

3. The way I thought about it so far was that the infobox should show which skill is required to execute the task. For wort there is no level required, but a pawn incapable of cooking won't be able to make it. But as you said I'll have to look at some edge cases first.

4. Allow me to add that some parts of the infobox and some properties are quite a mess right now. But it's a huge task changing anything about it, which is why so far I just added new stuff, afraid of breaking anything important. Is there a way seeing which pages actually use a property? Like a "What links here"-page? This would allow us to see which properties are just garbage that can be removed.